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Mr Anon 9:44 Thu Oct 13
Parallels to post 86 season

For those of us old enough to remember, isn't this pretty much what happened in 86 and after? One amazing season where we challenged the top order, only to fall away last few games, folllowed by a summer where we failed to strengthen, leading to a dissaponting follow up season.

It's the false dawns that get you, we've had a fair few.

Biggie Biggs 6:47 Fri Oct 14
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

I always thought Paul Hilton did a decent job tbh

isolated hammer 6:21 Fri Oct 14
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

But only west Ham would beat a team 10-0 and then go and buy the Centre Half from the side they walloped.

Russ of the BML 2:52 Fri Oct 14
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

wansteadman 8:43 Thu Oct 13

Imagine if we'd done what Alvin said and gone out and bought McMahon, Harford and Pearce!! Fucking hell that is a treble and a half. Would definitely been up there again.

wansteadman 8:43 Thu Oct 13
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

At the end of the 86 season lyall went to the board and said he needed 2 players and he would win the league. They laughed at him and then cashed in on Goddard macavennie and cottee. Unfortunately if you have a board that spend years nicking money out of the club they could nt help themselves.
I know they are not the best but I do feel that theowners want the club to do well and aint nicking out of the club which is refreshing after 50 years of watching owners who are in it for themselves

Alex Bunbury 8:27 Thu Oct 13
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

The only parallel I can seen between now and 86-87 is the number of injuries. I see more similarities with now and the season after we got to the cup final with Pardew.

As for 86-87 injuries killed us that season and a lack of depth in the squad. If you think about it Ward and McAvennie were unheard of when they signed and were not bought for big money. I think the board thought Lyall could continue to pull rabbits out of the hat but sadly later buys such as McQueen and Strodder didn't work out. We also sold Goddard, who was a top class player, and McAvennie and replaced them with Leroy Rosenior and David Kelly, both from the lower leagues and for cheaper fees than the money that was brought in.

LeroysBoots 7:53 Thu Oct 13
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

The sad reality is we've always been a bit of a 2 bob club....even now.

Its cheap signings loans and value

Not until we are run as a top professional club with the right peopke in the right positions will we ever be consistently challenging.

Sullivan needs to step away from the signings

Biggie Biggs 5:42 Thu Oct 13
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

we started that season really well , then faded around Christmas as we picked up injuries and the board made no investment in the squad .

Dan M 5:39 Thu Oct 13
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

Russ of the BML 1:38 Thu Oct 13

Thanks for posting that. Sad to read even all these years later.

Marco Boogers 2:17 Thu Oct 13
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

Gary Strodder

cholo 2:14 Thu Oct 13
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

Maybe Lyall was too 'nice' and wanted to stay loyal to the players who did well the previous season, or maybe he had his targets but the cearns were just tight cunts?

He wanted a centre half and got one from the then bottom team in the entire league, I'm sure he'd have taken an international given the chance.

Anyway Lyall covered this in his autobiography but I'm fucked if I can remember what he wrote.

Lertie Button 2:01 Thu Oct 13
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

We knew the chances of Dev going through another season uninjured was remote, that the left back position needed sorted and that we.needed an upgrade on both Alan Dickens and Neil Orr in central midfield.
What did we do? Exactly fuck all.

Christ some things never change

zico 1:39 Thu Oct 13
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

Eddie B 10:28 Thu Oct 13

I remember reading that some of the players thought Robson, whilst a good player, was totally the wrong sort of player for West Ham. The fans love him because he was everywhere but as you said he slowed things down too much and didn't give it to those who could see a pass..

Russ of the BML 1:38 Thu Oct 13
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

For those interested. Extract from the book 'Boys of 86'.

"Gale pinpoints the problem created by the arrival of Robson who says: ‘When Robbo came in and started trying to play the one touch stuff we’d been used to, you could see he didn’t have a clue. He was a good player in his own right but he wanted to be Roy of the Rovers and he stopped the pattern of our play. He was a strong personality too and sent Alan Dickens into his shell. So, in effect, what we felt was going to be one of the best signings after his performances for Arsenal, turned out to be one of John’s worst. I don’t mean that offensively or disrespectfully to John or Stewart but Robbo was just the wrong player for West Ham at that time’.

Dickens was also critical of Lyall: ‘The feeling was so optimistic before the 86-87 season. We knew we were a good side. I walked into pre-season training that summer and I had a strong feeling that we were going to do well again. We weren’t frightened of anyone. We were going to places like Liverpool thinking ‘we can win here’. We had the same mentality Man United have today. We should have built on what we had and when I look back through my mum’s scrap books you can see how well we did at the start of that season. I then got taken off a few times and I felt it was because I was the easy option. I felt I was playing for the team so never moaned, but Incey and Robbo came in and had an almost selfish attitude. Everything was disrupted. People stopped playing for the team. We went from being fourth to almost relegated. The spirit we’d had for the last 18 months had disappeared. I don’t like having a go at anyone but if I am brutally honest, the manager has to take responsibility. He brought in the wrong players. I’m not being nasty but bringing back Billy Bonds – as fit as he was at 40 – was not the right thing to do and sent out the wrong message to the fans. I thought it created a sense of desperation.’

Devonshire, although a staunch supporter of Lyall, also believes Robson was the wrong person to take over the midfield position shared by Geoff Pike and Neil Orr: ‘I hate to say it but I think John put his feet under the table a little bit after the 85-86 season. I, and others, expected him to go out and get two or three high quality players to take us to the next level and I was very disappointed when it didn’t happen. Even if it was a young left-sided player to challenge me, I wouldn’t have minded, because I knew we had to add to the squad with both experience and young, hungry players. People will say it’s easy to talk in hindsight but all the senior players at the time knew it. We needed another central midfielder but we didn’t get one until Stewart Robson came in halfway through – and he just was not a West Ham player. Playing for West Ham then was all about one and two-touch passing but Robson couldn’t play that way. We didn’t need him. He wanted to take all the corners and throw-ins and almost play against the style we were used to. The fans loved him because he ran about and threw himself in where it hurt, but they didn’t appear to realize that when he was on his arse not winning the ball, we were all suffering in midfield. Alan McKnight was without doubt the worst keeper I have seen that that level and David Kelly just did not know what to do. They were players who didn’t understand how things worked at West Ham and weren’t prepared to learn or fit in, so in the end we all suffered. What should have been the start of great things for West Ham became a big decline. It’s such a shame’.

Neil Orr adds: It was so disappointing that we didn’t move on from the 85-86 season and when I look back now, it was so obvious the squad needed strengthening. There was no way we was going to have another season without any major injuries and unfortunately that proved to be the case. Maybe John was happy with what he had, or he just couldn’t get the players he wanted that summer. I don’t know. But I do know if we had built on the success of the previous season I am positive the club would have gone on to great things’.

Alvin Martin indentified the players John Lyall should have been trying to bring to Upton Park for what should have been the renewed title challenge. He says: ‘When you looked around the dressing room you thought ‘Yeah, this is all right’. But you can imagine what it would have been like if two or three real top quality players had been brought in. Liverpool, for example, always went out and brought in two or three new players even if they’d just won the championship. We should have emulated that but never did.
The following season I had a problem with my knee. If that had been Liverpool they would have gone out and bought a top quality centre-half. If or when I got fit again I may not have got back into the side – but that would have been my problem. Liverpool didn’t stand still and wait for any player. No matter how good or adored they were and that’s how it should be. If you’d have taken away TC’s or Frank’s goals away from the 85-86 season you’d see we would have struggled. As it happened those two didn’t get any injuries and we had a good run all the way through. The following year we needed a central midfielder, a left-back and another striker to support TC and Frank. If we wanted to be the best and had long term vision we needed to sign the likes of Souness or Steve McMahon, Stuart Pearce and Mick Harford. We were very strong the previous year. But instead, we tried to get through the 86-87 season with what he had. Over 22 years at West Ham I had some up’s and down’s…….and down’s and more down’s. We were always two players short. Always. We were forever trying to make do. We always had eight good players but we always seemed to accept the other three without trying to strengthen and improve those positions. It still frustrates me today to think that if we had added real quality to the 85-86 squad we could have won the league. I know it. Honestly, we would have won it.

Ray Stewart agrees: ‘I’d go along with Alvin. Both Neil and Pikey did a great job but that was where we needed to really improve the following season."

LeroysBoots 1:04 Thu Oct 13
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

None at all

The board we had back then were too short sighted and didnt invest.... we got found out

The board we have now spent a fortune apparently but just bought dross.......... oh...... I see !

Eggbert Nobacon 12:54 Thu Oct 13
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

we started well in 86/87 so not really

glenny boy 12:47 Thu Oct 13
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

One thing we did that was bad in 86/87 was sell Paul Goddard, the result being we had no back up to Mac and TC. Then we were 4th , went up to Newcastle and lost 4-0 live on ITV. I bet Goddard was smiling to himself that day.
Downhill thereafter.

Eddie B 10:33 Thu Oct 13
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

stoneman, we were fifth almost halfway through the season:

http://www.westhamstats.info/westham.php?west=4&ham=1987&united=1st_Division_1986-87

Nagel 10:32 Thu Oct 13
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

i-Ron 10:18 Thu Oct 13

96/97 got so grim that Newell and Steve Jones were up front for a few games and you were actually praying for the return of Dowie! Just as well we were able to buy Hartson & Kitson in February.

stoneman 10:29 Thu Oct 13
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

I don't remember us falling away?

We won 5 out of our last 6 games.

Eddie B 10:28 Thu Oct 13
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

You're right, they didn't buy anyone until Robson, who was (in hindsight) completely the wrong type of player to get in. He slowed things down too much.

Two of the players bought in that season were the legends that were Gary Strodder and Tommy McQueen, admittedly not until March 87.

cholo 10:25 Thu Oct 13
Re: Parallels to post 86 season

I remember beating man utd at old Trafford frankie mac scoring twice, I think we all thought it was going to be our year.

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